Interaksi dengan golongan Anti Hadith

[boca120879]

 

[cbergilo]

Sunnah nabi Wajib ikut. Tapi masalahnya Nabi dah tiada.
Jadi sunnah beliau tidak terjaga lagi.

[Shakir 59:7] Whatever Allah has restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich of you, and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil):


present tense tu, ie beri (gives) dan larang (forbids). belum lagi masuk bab kena taat pada Rasul.
dlm masa yg sama, kena akur juga terdapat bukti sejarah...

Traditionalists have absolutely no response to this. Utterly demolishes any claim to the contrary. As I said years ago, spread it far and wide people.

http://www.hadith-studies.com/opponents-tradition-cook.pdf


jika dr rora belum sentuh isu di atas, minta beliau (atau sape2 yg ada ilmu) response sewajarnya.

 

[jumatmajid]

[Shakir 59:7] Whatever Allah has restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich of you, and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil):


present tense tu, ie beri (gives) dan larang (forbids). belum lagi masuk bab kena taat pada Rasul.
dlm masa yg sama, kena akur juga terdapat bukti sejarah...


http://www.hadith-studies.com/opponents-tradition-cook.pdf


jika dr rora belum sentuh isu di atas, minta beliau (atau sape2 yg ada ilmu) response sewajarnya.

sy pon sebenarnyer takder ilmu, tp berminat jgk nak tau aper isu sebenarnyer kat sini....

aper kaitkan perkataan yg dlm bentuk present form tuh dgn hujah menolak hadis???...

tp setau sy perkataan "أَتَى" [gave] & "نَهَى" [forbid] tuh dua2 dlm bentuk past tense...

blh tlg huraikan sket, dah buka link yg sdr bg, tp x jumpa plak petikan yg sdr bg kat atas...

terima kasih...

 

[cbergilo]

sy pon sebenarnyer takder ilmu, tp berminat jgk nak tau jgk aper isu sebenarnyer kat sini....

aper kaitkan perkataan yg dlm bentuk present form tuh dgn hujah menolak hadis???...

tp setau sy perkataan "أَتَى" [gave] & "نَهَى" [forbid] tuh dua2 dlm bentuk past tense...

haha...tak jelas ya. sori.
bahagian pertama: tak wajar tolak hadis 100%. ni ada 1 lg terjemahan bg ayat yg sama:
[Yusufali 59:7] What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from the people of the townships,- belongs to Allah,- to His Messenger and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer; In order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah; for Allah is strict in Punishment.
apa maksud sebenarnya disisi Allah dan Rasul? apapun, sepatutnya

...belum lagi masuk bab kena taat pada Rasul.

mencukupi sbg bukti, legasi nabi saw wajib diikuti, hatta arini.
jika benar2 hadith nabi saw, wajib diikuti. jika direka2, sewajarnya dijauhi. Lalu, macam mana nak tahu?

blh tlg huraikan sket, dah buka link yg sdr bg, tp x jumpa plak petikan yg sdr bg kat atas...

terima kasih...

ini post asal:

bump*

http://www.hadith-studies.com/opponents-tradition-cook.pdf


Traditionalists have absolutely no response to this. Utterly demolishes any claim to the contrary. As I said years ago, spread it far and wide people.

ada sebarang ide camne nak refute artikel di atas atau jika benar, ada sebarang teori bg menerangkannya?

 

[dausbiz]

bukan semua anti hadis tue dia anti hadis

hanya disebabkan dia tak nak ikut beberapa hadis yang bercanggah dengan Quran

juga tak sesuai dengan kefahaman orang lain

terus cop orang tue anti hadis

terus cop orang tue sesat

 

[jumatmajid]

haha...tak jelas ya. sori.
bahagian pertama: tak wajar tolak hadis 100%. ni ada 1 lg terjemahan bg ayat yg sama:
[Yusufali 59:7] What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from the people of the townships,- belongs to Allah,- to His Messenger and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer; In order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah; for Allah is strict in Punishment.
apa maksud sebenarnya disisi Allah dan Rasul? apapun, sepatutnya mencukupi sbg bukti, legasi nabi saw wajib diikuti, hatta arini.
jika benar2 hadith nabi saw, wajib diikuti. jika direka2, sewajarnya dijauhi. Lalu, macam mana nak tahu?
ini post asal:


ada sebarang ide camne nak refute artikel di atas atau jika benar, ada sebarang teori bg menerangkannya?

klu yg sy baca, paper tuh lbh kpd perbincangan ttg percanggahan pendpt sama ada hadis lbh elok di hafal atau lbh elok di tulis...

ada pd satu ketika, semasa peralihan antara hafalan kpd tulisan, berlaku sedikit perselisihan di antara ulama...

sy x nampak plak perbincangan ttg hadis x blh digunapakai & mesti rujuk pd Al-Quran shj...

x tau lah klu sy slh fhm plak...

 

[cbergilo]

klu yg sy baca, paper tuh lbh kpd perbincangan ttg percanggahan pendpt sama ada hadis lbh elok di hafal atau lbh elok di tulis...

ada pd satu ketika, semasa peralihan antara hafalan kpd tulisan, berlaku sedikit perselisihan di antara ulama...

kesimpulannya, betul la kajian yg dibuat tu ie ada bangkangan (opposition) terhadap penulisan hadith di permulaan islam?

sy x nampak plak perbincangan ttg hadis x blh digunapakai & mesti rujuk pd Al-Quran shj...

x tau lah klu sy slh fhm plak...

ni link asal. dah dijadikan sticky. papabaik lebih layak utk beri penjelasan, kenapa ini adalah perkara besar bg quranist.
saya sendiri berpandangan, sikap quranist mirip kpd marahkan nyamuk, kelambu dibakar.

[Shakir 33:21] Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.

 

[cbergilo]

bayangkan:
sahabat merakam sume hadith nabi saw. makna kata, generasi ke2, atau ke3 atau ke4 atau ke5 atau ke6 atau ke7 takde ruang dan peluang nak reka atau salah merawi (sengaja atau tak sengaja) hadith nabi saw.
dlm sinario begini, dr rora pun tak boleh nak berbangga diri dgn PhD dlm pengajian hadithnya.

 

[jumatmajid]

kesimpulannya, betul la kajian yg dibuat tu ie ada bangkangan (opposition) terhadap penulisan hadith di permulaan islam?

yg sy fhm mrk bangkang penulisan hadis [written transmission], tp x bangkang hadis dihafal & disebarkan [oral transmission]...

dlm kesimpulan akhir, penulis ader menyebutkan spt berikut...

"§ 158 As oral Traditions go, the Muslim experiment was not particularly successful. The traditionists maintained it for something like a century,
and then largely abandoned it bar the formalities. Why? The availability of writing in a literate society clearly constitutes a standing temptation for the would
- be perpetuators of a scholastic oral Tradition.", hlm. 59

jls beliau x membincangkan ttg penolakan mana2 glgan terhdp hadis sbg sumber hukum...

ttp beliau membincangkan ttg penolakan sekelompok ulama tertentu terhdp penulisan hadis [written transmission]...

jd bg sy paper nih takder kaitan pon dgn anti-hadis utk dijdkan sebgi hujah yg menyokong pandangan mrk...

ni link asal. dah dijadikan sticky. papabaik lebih layak utk beri penjelasan, kenapa ini adalah perkara besar bg quranist.
saya sendiri berpandangan, sikap quranist mirip kpd marahkan nyamuk, kelambu dibakar.

[Shakir 33:21] Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.

minta maaf ckp yer sdr, org yg kater, i.e. Waqas, kununyer paper nih berkenaan dgn penolakan para ulama terhdp hadis sebenarnyer x baca pon paper tuh...

klu dia baca pon, dia sengaja nak kelirukan pembaca lain, sbb paper tuh mmg sgt pjg [61 hlm] & ditulis dlm format yg sgt akademik...

cthnyer, dlm post Waqas dier ader petik sebhgian drpd statement penulis dlm paper tuh utk menguatkan hujah beliau spt berikut...

"...it is clear that controversy over the writing of Tradition was widespread outside Baṣra.
Our sources indicate its existence in Kufa, Medina, Mecca, the Yemen, and Syria...", hlm. 29.

tp sebenarnyer dlm hlman yg sama, penulis jg ader membuat statement yg jls ttg topik sebenar paper beliau spt berikut...

"3. The nature of the opposition

§ 72 ln the third century the relationship between the oral and the written had settled down into a more-or-less stable and consistent conliguration.
The old oral values had left unmistakable and by no means trivial residues.331 Yet the acceptance of writing was overwhelming:
it was used freely both by teachers and by students, both in class and at home."

jd sekali lg yg dibincangkan aderlah transisi hadis dr oral transmission kpd written transmission & sesetgh ulama membantah transisi ini...

tp si Waqas memetik sebhgian statement & meninggalkan statement yg lain utk kepentingan peribadi...

biasaklah klu mmg matlamat hidup nak memburuk2kan ulama & hadis2 dr Nabi Muhammad SAW...

x kisah cara aper sekali pon akan digunakan utk menegakkan kebatilan ajaran sendiri, wlupon dgn cara menipu & memfitnah glgan lain...

cth dlm CG nih pon sgt2 jls, tp mlgnyer ader jgk yg menyokong mrk [-( [-( [-(...

 

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